Have we learned anything since 9/11? President George W. Bush has apparently learned not to overreact. In the panicky days after the September 11 attacks, the president wanted to see any scrap of information, no matter how thinly sourced. As a result, raw and unfiltered intelligence gushed into the Oval Office. A few weeks after 9/11, for instance, authorities in Pennsylvania received a frightening tip from an FBI office overseas: terrorists had a nuclear device on a train somewhere between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. The report went straight to the White House, where the president was anxiously consuming threat traffic like a midlevel CIA analyst. The information, while terrifying, turned out to be bogus. Within a day it had been traced back to a conversation between two men overheard at a urinal in Ukraine.

Characteristically, some time later, Bush made a mordant joke of the scare. "Is this another Ukrainian urinal incident?" he would sarcastically inquire when some alarming but shaky intelligence came across his desk. His briefers learned to screen out the more lurid but unchecked tidbits, like the "poison pen" or "jilted-lover letters" that sometimes arrive at the FBI to falsely accuse a former spouse or boyfriend of conspiring with terrorists. Bush now "trusts his team" to weed out such "speculative" intelligence, said a senior Bush aide. The aide, who declined to be identified discussing the president's state of mind, implied, perhaps without meaning to, that earlier in his administration the president was warier of intelligence advisers.

Though Bush can still probe the minutiae in intelligence briefings ("He's like a street cop," says Rep. Peter King, chairman of the Homeland Security Committee in the House), the president took a fairly hands-off approach to the biggest terror investigation since 9/11. Over the past several months, although British intelligence was closely tracking a plot to blow up as many as 10 airliners headed toward the United States from Britain, Bush was kept only loosely in the loop. At a briefing on Aug. 3, "he was basically told, 'This is happening and you should know about it, but we don't have a lot of details yet'," said a senior White House aide who asked to remain anonymous discussing intelligence briefings. The next day, the president was given a fuller picture. On Sunday, Aug. 6, Bush spent 45 minutes talking to British Prime Minister Tony Blair about timing—when to alert the airlines?—but he was informed of the impending arrests only as they were about to happen. At the time, he was at his Texas ranch, building a dock on the lake and riding his bike. While British intel was closing in on the alleged plotters, Bush was egging his junior aides to join the "100 Degree Club," an annual run in the scorching heat. Bush, who has quit jogging because of bad knees, rides a bike around his panting staffers, shouting, "Keep going! You can do it!"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14323311/

Nearly 3,000 people died in the terrorist attacks on New York, the Pentagon and Pennsylvania. Many more thousands of loved ones saw their lives shattered at a stroke.

There will be some extra bustle this week at Ground Zero, where the twin towers once stood. As the fifth anniversary of the 11 September terror attacks approaches, more people than usual will be coming to the grey pit that remains and studying the photographs of the horror that are attached to the chain link fence.

It is a sterile place nowadays. New York has taken all this time to untangle conflicting interests surrounding plans for the new the Freedom Tower, Memorial Museum and assorted office, retail and cultural buildings. The fights over insurance money, safety standards for the new structures and over what victims' families consider appropriate for their sacred soil have mostly finished and, finally, some foundations are being dug. But building site or not, Ground Zero still makes heavy demands on your emotions.

Live webcam at Ground Zero... please try to view this tomorrow & remember those who died.

Please also respect the worldwide moments of silence that will be taking place to remember this anniversary.

I don't know...I would find it better to make a global day of it to remind of all people who died of terroristic or violent attacs around the world. Of course this was a horrible and very special 'event' and I do feel pity for all the victims and their families. But we don't have a memorial day for the people who died in Soweto, or Mi Lay, or Hiroshima, we not even have a global memorial day for the victims of the Shoa, and this have been 6 millions of people.
I can understand when the people in the US feel the need to do that, but why should all the world participate?

Karen - I don't know anyone who WASN'T affected by this event in one way or another... physically or emotionally... a lot of people lost family & friends, myself included... even more people knew people who lost family & friends... fellow firefighters, rescue crews & policemen mourned for their fallen brothers & sisters & everyone was affected by the footage on the news that day.

The media coverage has ensured that this single day will live in infamy... the old question "Where were you & what were you doing when..." will make sure nobody forgets this for a long time to come... it got world-wide coverage, so why shouldn't it get world-wide rememberance?

I was 11 years old when this happened - the first news I really do remember: The moment, the effect, how it made us talk at school... I barely watched news before this - I haven't even heard about WTC or George Bush. These news stopped me and changed something in a little girl.

I came from the stables on that night. Mum had left tv on, I waited for some programme but all channels showed picture from Manhattan. News, news and news... What on earth has happened? My first time I watched news all night long, dunno was it a bad or good cos I saw horrible things. I still have clear pictures in my head of that what I saw. I was confused and all I knew was that two planes had crashed in the two towers. Two other planes didn't get my attention. These news made me tear which hasn't happened to me ever before. I didn't talk to mum and that's why my head was full of pictures and thoughts. We talked a lot at school next day, we were sure we'd get the third world war. We planned where we'd escape and so on. Thank God teacher kept us an information hour and calmed us down...

USA is far away from Turku but 9/11 touches me always. I've lighted a candle every year, remember what has happened, the loss... Think and try to understand.

My husband will actually be on a plane tomorrow... he is flying back to Inverness from London Heathrow...

Security is bound to be extra tight, but please keep him in your thoughts too.

Funtin':

Karen - I don't know anyone who WASN'T affected by this event in one way or another... physically or emotionally... a lot of people lost family & friends, myself included... even more people knew people who lost family & friends... fellow firefighters, rescue crews & policemen mourned for their fallen brothers & sisters & everyone was affected by the footage on the news that day.

The media coverage has ensured that this single day will live in infamy... the old question "Where were you & what were you doing when..." will make sure nobody forgets this for a long time to come.
[/quote]


I definetely was emotionally affected, when I saw it, yes. But I'm not so sure about really "celebrating" and reinitiating that emotional affection again in this case. Because so it will stay not only a day of sadness, but also a day of glory for the friends of those terrorists. It makes them to heros once again in their contextes.
It is good to have rituals against forgetting, when horrible things happen... but it's questionable how and when. This single day will keep in memory anyway... just because the pictures and the film material about it is so impressing and the medias have an interest anyway to show this material again. But many massakers happened as well in the meantime with no camera nearbye.
And I'm a bit scared, that this day will be used again as a symbol for Bushs "war against terrorism" rhetoric. In fact the killed people have been abused from both sides... first they had to dy because of a symbolic act to destroy the economic center of the Western world, second they have been declared as "war victims" by Bush to have a reason to declare war to Iraqu.

I think before the US now puts loads of money in such a celebration they schould rather give it to the people of New Orleans, who still havent been able to move back in their houses ...

[quote name='Funtin'' post='671034' date='Sep 10 2006, 01:54 PM']
My husband will actually be on a plane tomorrow... he is flying back to Inverness from London Heathrow...

Security is bound to be extra tight, but please keep him in your thoughts too.

I will think of him and hope he will have a safe trip.

Karen, people in Turku remember Hiroshima every year: we put candles in paper nautiluses and let them in Aura river. Well there aren't many people who do this anymore, mostly the asian/japanese who live here.

As long I've supported human right-organizations I think we shouldn't have a special day for days like 9/11... Everyone can keep own memorable events but in public, no thank you. There is so much suffering in the world...

flocha:

Karen, people in Turku remember Hiroshima every year: we put candles in paper nautiluses and let them in Aura river. Well there aren't many people who do this anymore, mostly the asian/japanese who live here.

As long I've supported human right-organizations I think we shouldn't have a special day for days like 9/11... Everyone can keep own memorable events but in public, no thank you. There is so much suffering in the world...

Off course we have a national memorial day in Germany for the victims of the Shoa too (the 27th of January)... but this is about a worlwide memorial day (!)... and concerning this, I really think a worlwide memorial day shouldn't only be about a single terror act. It would only convince those terrorists that they really managed to destroy the center of the Western culture, what for my understanding isn't true. They killed 3000 people and a really huge building (well, several huge buildings), which is just a crime. It wouldn't have been any worse or better, when the plane rammed a crowded football stadion.

I am glad that despite such a terrible tragedy it has'nt put the majority off air travel. Since 9/11 I've not been afraid of air travel and never will be. I live a short distance from Inverness Airport and get planes flying past my house all hours... I remain confident that those planes will reach their destination without any fear at all.

It's the nutters that threaten civilian lives that should be stopped and brought to justice. Bombing countries to smithereens is not the answer. Bush is paying for the mistakes that his Dad made when he was president, and is making things no better... definately a chip off the old block, that one.

However Bush handled 9/11 he was always going to be criticised. No amount of preparation in the world can really and truly prepare you for anything like that happening. Now I'm not a Bush fan, he is only human and maybe he could have handled things differently, but could any of us have done any better? It was a mammoth task and it would have been difficult to know where to start.
Fair enough he has made some dodgy decisions but I think people should look at the bigger picture.

Funtin':

It's the nutters that threaten civilian lives that should be stopped and brought to justice. Bombing countries to smithereens is not the answer. Bush is paying for the mistakes that his Dad made when he was president, and is making things no better... definately a chip off the old block, that one.

Let's not forget about the part that the Clinton administration had in this. National security wasn't exactly Bill's top priority. Bush had only been in office a relatively short time when 9/11 happened.

I can also remember where I was and what I was doing that moment I turned on the tv. It's a horrible thing that happened, and we'll never find out the real truth about the whole thing, whether it was the Bush administration (like some theories proven) or Al Qaeda.

It saddens me that in the "war against terrorism", like it's called nowadays, more people have died than in the actual 9/11 bombing. I'd rather believe in talks against war, but that's not happening when people continue bombing eachother.

Terrorism, whatever the definition, is something we all have to live with. The best thing we can do is just go on with our lives, without feeling threatened and without letting the terrorist stop us from having a normal life. We should be glad we're able to do that, since it's rare in other countries to do that.

It was a sad day and I remember it as yesterday.

Don't they build on the Ground Zero??

I think it should be as it is and be remembered by. or something.. to be learned from.

This may sound a bit harsh, but I think the whole the way this event has been treated throughout the years has been very American. No offense to the Americans on here, but somehow I have a feeling that if it had been in Japan it wouldn't have dragged on so long. Bush used an attack on cities in his country as a reason to get almost the entire Western world involved in a war that has cost more lives than the actual attack. If it had been anywhere else in the world, what would the reaction have been, I wonder.

This is not to say it wasn't horrible, because it was. I do feel however that the whole aftermath of the event has been about one very silly man wanting to play with guns, just like his papa did years before him. It is an event that has changed the world, sometimes in ways unnecessary.

I agree with Tina here. A worldwide memorial day should be about terrorism all over the world, because, and this might be news to Mr. Bush, terrorism didn't start in 2001 and it also didn't end with the Twin Towers.

Femke

Babe - Explain please...I'm confused.

Edit - I'd say it's been very American government, but not very American. Most Americans I know don't handle problems like Bush handled the tragedy of 9/11 or terrorism.

I'm just watching the documentary thingy about 9/11 on Discovery Channel. It's as horrible as ever

Femke:

This may sound a bit harsh, but I think the whole the way this event has been treated throughout the years has been very American. No offense to the Americans on here, but somehow I have a feeling that if it had been in Japan it wouldn't have dragged on so long. Bush used an attack on cities in his country as a reason to get almost the entire Western world involved in a war that has cost more lives than the actual attack. If it had been anywhere else in the world, what would the reaction have been, I wonder.

This is not to say it wasn't horrible, because it was. I do feel however that the whole aftermath of the event has been about one very silly man wanting to play with guns, just like his papa did years before him. It is an event that has changed the world, sometimes in ways unnecessary.

I agree with Tina here. A worldwide memorial day should be about terrorism all over the world, because, and this might be news to Mr. Bush, terrorism didn't start in 2001 and it also didn't end with the Twin Towers.

i agree with you.
Of course 9-11 was horrible, but no one thought about a global day when AMIA happened in argentina ( a terrorist attack against jewish ) .

I agree with karen`s idea. A global day agaisnt terrorism suites better than a day related only to 9/11.
Against terrorism and war too. Because people were killed in 9/11 but what about the ones killed in iraq or afganistan? thats very sad too.

Femke:

This is not to say it wasn't horrible, because it was. I do feel however that the whole aftermath of the event has been about one very silly man wanting to play with guns, just like his papa did years before him. It is an event that has changed the world, sometimes in ways unnecessary.

A worldwide memorial day should be about terrorism all over the world, because, and this might be news to Mr. Bush, terrorism didn't start in 2001 and it also didn't end with the Twin Towers.

I couldn't have said it any better ..

ms.ohno:

Femke

Babe - Explain please...I'm confused.

Edit - I'd say it's been very American government, but not very American. Most Americans I know don't handle problems like Bush handled the tragedy of 9/11 or terrorism.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion. It was late...

saxamophonegill:

However Bush handled 9/11 he was always going to be criticised. No amount of preparation in the world can really and truly prepare you for anything like that happening. Now I'm not a Bush fan, he is only human and maybe he could have handled things differently, but could any of us have done any better? It was a mammoth task and it would have been difficult to know where to start.
Fair enough he has made some dodgy decisions but I think people should look at the bigger picture.

I don't agree here... when I saw all those documentaries again, how people helped each other to survive, how at once they've all been equal in front of that catastrophe..., no matter which class or race they had, how they fighted for each single life, no matter if it was the life of the windowcleaner or of the manager - there would have been a big, big chance to use this affection for solidarity campagnes, to give the US a more friendly face, to see themselves as a community, where one has to help the other. It could have been a big chance for social reforms... instead Bush prefered to use this emotional affection for creating thoughts of revenge, for messing up religion with war ideology, and headless shooting around in certain parts of the world, he used it for building "secret CIA prisons" and for having reasons to torture people. There's no excuse for that - and again he uses the 5th anniversary of 9/11 to overlap the news about those prisons in the medias and for playing 'Texas Poker', and that's abusing the victims. It was also him turning the world into a dark dystopia of itself, not only the terrorists. Be honest... if you would have read ten years before about Abu Gureib, about secret prisons, about torturing, about trapping poor young teenagers in the Army with wrong promises... you would have thought of it as of a paranoiac novel... and the worst part of all that is... he showed the world exactly that face of the US, that those terrorist killers pretent to fight against. Any other reaction of him, would have proven them wrong.

Ceremonies are being held in the US to mark the fifth anniversary of the 11 September attacks.
President George W Bush began the commemorations on Sunday by laying a wreath at Ground Zero, the site of New York's Twin Towers.

Flags will fly at half-mast and bells will toll in New York at the time the North Tower was struck. Relatives will read the names of the victims.

A total of 2,973 people died in the four al-Qaeda-led attacks.

As the US began the anniversary, an apparently new video has been aired from al-Qaeda deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahri, who urged Muslims to increase resistance against the US.

Relatives those who died in the attacks will gather in New York to read out the names of the 2,749 victims of the World Trade Center attacks, punctuated by four silences.

They will be at 0846 local time (1246 GMT) - when the first plane struck the North Tower - then at 0903 (1303 GMT), 0959 (1359 GMT) and 1029 (1429 GMT), the times of the second strike and the falling of the two towers.

Silences will also be observed at the Boston airport where the planes that hit the Twin Towers took off.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5333646.stm - rest of the article.

Main US Events today...

• Ground Zero ceremony begins at 08:40 (12:40 GMT)
• Four silences, 08:46 (12:46 GMT), 09:03 (13:03 GMT), 09:59 (13:59 GMT), 10:29 (14:29 GMT)
• Family memorial ceremony at Pentagon, 09:00 (13:00 GMT)
• Wreath-laying at Shanksville, Pennsylvania, 15:35 (19:35 GMT)
• President Bush to address nation, 21:01 (01:00 GMT Tues)

Flick:

we'll never find out the real truth about the whole thing, whether it was the Bush administration (like some theories proven) or Al Qaeda.

Sorry, but to even THINK the American government - whatever else you think of them, and I am far, far from a political conservative or Bush supporter - could have been in any way directly involved with perpetrating those heinous acts is just paranoid and worse than absurd. Conspiracy theorists have asserted that the Bush administration carried out the attacks to provide an excuse for Bush to go to war in the Middle East. That is so contemptuous a position it's not even worthy of a moment's consideration. (I doubt you meant to use the word "proven" there.)

Another post mentions commemoration of the events of 9/11 as a "celebration." I can assure you that no one in the country finds anything to "celebrate" about this day.

I am, of course, in New York City. I watched the buildings come down first-hand from a window in the building where I worked at the time. I dare say New Yorkers are going to carry on with our lives today, just as we have been for five years. You go on. What else can you do.

I remeber very well what I did on 09/11/2001: My daughter had a belated bd-party so we had no TV or radio on. While I was looking after a bunch of 9-year-old school girls my eldest brother called and told me: "The third world war has just started!" Of course I switched on the TV immediately and saw what happened... Kind of surreal situation! What should I do with all these kids now?
I know that my brother is always tending to exaggerate. But behind his words was the fear: How is the US-government going to react now? How the reaction actually was has already been described.
Five years after that I still feel a deep compassion with all victims of that attack and their families and friends (but not for the US-government!) , as much as I feel for every other victims of war and terrorism around the world! For the individual it makes no difference if he or she is killed while working in the twin towers or while sitting in a cafe in Tel Aviv.
Therefore I'm for a memorial day for global terrorism-victims as well!

MMK:

Flick:

we'll never find out the real truth about the whole thing, whether it was the Bush administration (like some theories proven) or Al Qaeda.

Sorry, but to even THINK the American government - whatever else you think of them, and I am far, far from a political conservative or Bush supporter - could have been in any way directly involved with perpetrating those heinous acts is just paranoid and worse than absurd. Conspiracy theorists have asserted that the Bush administration carried out the attacks to provide an excuse for Bush to go to war in the Middle East. That is so contemptuous a position it's not even worthy of a moment's consideration. (I doubt you meant to use the word "proven" there.)

Another post mentions commemoration of the events of 9/11 as a "celebration." I can assure you that no one in the country finds anything to "celebrate" about this day.

I am, of course, in New York City. I watched the buildings come down first-hand from a window in the building where I worked at the time. I dare say New Yorkers are going to carry on with our lives today, just as we have been for five years. You go on. What else can you do.

It was me using the word celebration, I'm sorry when it was inappropriate here and only a language mistake, I apologize for that. In my language the word for celebration is just used for any jubilee or event, where people come together, no matter if it's a sad or a happy occasion. If it is someone's birthday it's a "birthday celebration", if someone died it's a "funeral celebration"... I only didn't know a better word in English. And yes I agree that those conspiracy theorists put it far over the age, blaming the Bush administration even for 9/11 itself.

That's OK - I can understand about a simple mistake in word usage. No offense taken, then.

This is a day for rememberance, not for arguments... so please don't... thanks.

(And please don't reply & say it was a misunderstanding.. I can read... translation gets lost between the languages, that is understandable).

Funtin':

This is a day for rememberance, not for arguments... so please don't... thanks.

(And please don't reply & say it was a misunderstanding.. I can read... translation gets lost between the languages, that is understandable).

I doubt there were arguments, just discussions.

I see no arguments, great dialect however from people all over the world - it's good to see various perspectives.

Femke - xo

Here in Philadelphia, we commemorate EVERYTHING that has happened around the world, as we did on 7/7/06 for London, we do for the Holocaust, Hiroshima, Slavery, Tsunami..you name it, we take time to mourn the lives. That's the type of Americans my city is and I love Philadelphia for it.

Anyway, I left New York the night before. I was at a Jamiroquai concert. I was so tired when I came to work on 9/11/01. When the tragedy hit, my phone kept ringing because everyone wanted to be sure I was back home. I almost missed that train, but I still would have gotten home because I had to work. I went back up 2 days after as a volunteer nurse and sheeesh, that put things into perspective for me.

At anyrate, as I wake up this morning - I thank God for the lives that were spared and mourn the ones that were lost in this attack (and others). Regardless of any political stance, those people didn't deserve to die. I didn't know anyone that passed.

I think what we can do now is continue to educate and be sensitive and tolerable to each other and differences really and as MMK said...you go on - there isn't really a choice.

Don't want until a tragedy to be sensitive to life or help others.

This is my friend from NY's blog that she posted this morning (I won't name her)...

It was a beautiful Tuesday morning in the 70s. I had just taken 4 days off to recouperate from some minor surgery. It was my first day back in the office and I was checking my overseas emails (I work for a humanitarian org.) I was at my desk and at 9:03 a.m. I heard about the first plane crashing into the Tower. Over the next few hours my feelings of hopelessness, worry, and fear increased and that is something I don't ever want to feel again. I'll never forget the smell of the fires while being 2 miles away from the site walking in Greenwich Village, my sinuses hurting me wherever I walked in the City, living 8 miles away in Brooklyn and seeing the smoke rising for a month, the disbelief in my face when I saw the 10 story tall debris through 2 buildings while being driven into the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel and the first time I saw that hole. Even thinking and writing about it upsets me.

Most of you guys don't know, but 6+ months ago, another person was formally buried. So, we're still burying our dead five years later. It's very difficult walking by a firehouse, any firehouse, every firehouse in the City and seeing pictures of their fallen comrades.

I was very blessed to not lose someone close to me that day, but I know far too many people who did. I almost lost my aunt when she decided 30-45 mins before the plane hit Tower 2 not to visit her coworkers and proceded to her office in Jersey City. The psychological effects is what we all have and suffer from to an extent. Every time I hear a plane that sounds a little too close to my apt building in Queens there's always that doubt that goes through my head. Walking around that area overwhelms me at times because I can't stand the energy, I feel as if I'm suffocating. Whenever I drive by in a car, I just look the other way.

In a way I envy everyone who doesn't live here, you can "forget" about it for a day, week, whatever. Not as easy when there are reminders everywhere - the skyline, firehouses, walking by buildings and remembering the hundreds of flyers of missing people, in our office we have a piece of the debris that was given to us from the Fire Dept after donating eye drops for the workers. And now, 5 years after this, our selfless rescue workers are dying from inhaling the toxic debris. What a cruel joke karma has played on us.

What scared me most of all was 2 months after the event, there was a plane crash in Queens en route to the Dominican Republic. There was a man there who had just quit his job at the WTC and had started his own business and going to DR. What relief and joy he must have felt knowing he cheated death. He didn't. He was on that plane that crashed in Queens. I said to myself "When God calls you home. He calls you home, one way or another."

Personal politics aside. No one, no country, no people deserves that kind of carnage. My heart and sympathies go out to the people in Spain and the UK who experienced their own 9/11.

^^ You're a brave woman, Ms Ohno...

I visited Ground Zero for the first time on my US trip in August. It is a very sombre place even now, and there were people shedding tears reading the memorial and just looking at what is still a big hole in the ground.

Being there really brought it home to me: it was difficult to really imagine the full horror of the day before.

Kirjava

Thanks, but I can't take credit for being brave. My number got pulled to go, and with volunteer nurses - you can't really deny or reject when it's time to go unless there is a real reasoning. We all take turns, and because I am so close to NYC, it was easier for them to pick me instead of someone coming in from afar. No planes were flying either, so that had a bit to do with it.

I remember my parents were up that week... we had just taken Luke, who was only a month old, for his hospital check-up & had gone over to the cafe in Tesco's to pick up some stuff for lunch... everyone was standing round the TV section watching it all unfold on the screens... just standing there... it was like the whole place had gathered in that one section.. there was no-one on the tills serving at all... we all just watched in horror as it all happened.

It was only afterwards when I realised where it was that I knew my two friends from college were missing & presumed dead... they never found their bodies.

Funtin':

It was only afterwards when I realised where it was that I knew my two friends from college were missing & presumed dead... they never found their bodies.

That's so horrible. I was fortunate in that I didn't know anyone.

It's a little strange here today, and there's a greater-than-normal police presence on the street and in the subways. Which is fine with me, belive me. It's just comforting on a gut level, whether it means anything practically speaking or not.

MMK:

Sorry, but to even THINK the American government - whatever else you think of them, and I am far, far from a political conservative or Bush supporter - could have been in any way directly involved with perpetrating those heinous acts is just paranoid and worse than absurd. Conspiracy theorists have asserted that the Bush administration carried out the attacks to provide an excuse for Bush to go to war in the Middle East. That is so contemptuous a position it's not even worthy of a moment's consideration. (I doubt you meant to use the word "proven" there.)
[/quote]

I'm just surprised, that there are some facts, which are odd and never gotten an answer. I'm not saying I believe the conspiracy theories, there are some doubts in my mind. I'm not saying the Bush government actually was involved in the attacks, but it is a fact the war's started with some wrong reasons and many lives were also killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's what I'm against.

[quote name='ms.ohno' post='671481' date='Sep 11 2006, 03:15 PM']
Anyway, I left New York the night before. I was at a Jamiroquai concert. I was so tired when I came to work on 9/11/01. When the tragedy hit, my phone kept ringing because everyone wanted to be sure I was back home. I almost missed that train, but I still would have gotten home because I had to work. I went back up 2 days after as a volunteer nurse and sheeesh, that put things into perspective for me.

Wow, respect to you Ms Ohno, that must've been hard. We can't imagine what you must've seen.

you know what i aways wondered, why the plane crashing at the pentegon is never talked about, never mentioned? I don't even know how many died there, what damage it did etc, because it was kept so secret!

Tracey D:

you know what i aways wondered, why the plane crashing at the pentegon is never talked about, never mentioned? I don't even know how many died there, what damage it did etc, because it was kept so secret!

ive read a book "20 grandes conspiraciones de la historia" in which they author talked about the pentagon and the doubts surronding it.
it was said that all the "managers" and high-level people werent in the building, and that the people who were killed were simple employees. It makes you think that there were people who already knew.
ive also read that it wasnt a plane at all... but who knows?

I wont never understand why americans voted bush in the re-elections. Because before the elections, i separeted what the government have done from what the americans feel or believe in.
I was so sure that Bush would lose! Americans really disappointed me.

Flick:

I'm just surprised, that there are some facts, which are odd and never gotten an answer. I'm not saying I believe the conspiracy theories, there are some doubts in my mind. I'm not saying the Bush government actually was involved in the attacks, but it is a fact the war's started with some wrong reasons and many lives were also killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's what I'm against.
[/quote]
I'm right on the same page with you there.

Ines:

[quote name='Tracey D' post='671604' date='Sep 11 2006, 01:35 PM']
you know what i aways wondered, why the plane crashing at the pentegon is never talked about, never mentioned? I don't even know how many died there, what damage it did etc, because it was kept so secret!

ive read a book "20 grandes conspiraciones de la historia" in which they author talked about the pentagon and the doubts surronding it.
it was said that all the "managers" and high-level people werent in the building, and that the people who were killed were simple employees. It makes you think that there were people who already knew.
ive also read that it wasnt a plane at all... but who knows?

I wont never understand why americans voted bush in the re-elections. Because before the elections, i separeted what the government have done from what the americans feel or believe in.
I was so sure that Bush would lose! Americans really disappointed me.

Time Magazine had what I thought a very reasonable story on the various conspiracy theories last week:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...1531304,00.html

There's a reasonable explanation offered for some of the "controversy" surrounding the events at the Pentagon.

I was particularly struck by this paragraph:

"There are psychological explanations for why conspiracy theories are so seductive. Academics who study them argue that they meet a basic human need: to have the magnitude of any given effect be balanced by the magnitude of the cause behind it. A world in which tiny causes can have huge consequences feels scary and unreliable. Therefore a grand disaster like Sept. 11 needs a grand conspiracy behind it. "We tend to associate major events--a President or princess dying--with major causes," says Patrick Leman, a lecturer in psychology at Royal Holloway University of London, who has conducted studies on conspiracy belief. "If we think big events like a President being assassinated can happen at the hands of a minor individual, that points to the unpredictability and randomness of life and unsettles us." In that sense, the idea that there is a malevolent controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way, comforting."

Femke

Yeah, don't knock my view please, but I agree. I was talking to someone about this today actually after hearing a news bulletin. The guy (who was american) said that it was an event that changed the world. But honestly, thats almost saying that America is the world because it didn't really affect us here ...

Val:

Femke

Yeah, don't knock my view please, but I agree. I was talking to someone about this today actually after hearing a news bulletin. The guy (who was american) said that it was an event that changed the world. But honestly, thats almost saying that America is the world because it didn't really affect us here ...

Not knocking your view at all - just giving you mine...

Hmm....I don't get that at all from that guys statement - but that's cool .

About being an event that changed the world - well...if 9/11 didn't happen, then many other things (which involve different countries - not sure about yours) wouldn't be happening. So in a sense to me, 9/11 did help change the world - as do most tragedies where thousands die.

And, continuing on that point...I can only speak for me, as you have spoken for you - but when these things happen - whether it's an earthquake in Asia, AIDS in Africa, rape of women in Iraq, or whatever - it does affect me and other Americans enough to be activist for human justice and united against ignorance and prejudice on a worldly level.

So perhaps it didn't change your world, but it sure helped changed mine - and I'm thankful for that (not the tragedy, but the inspiration).

Funtin':

Karen - I don't know anyone who WASN'T affected by this event in one way or another... physically or emotionally... a lot of people lost family & friends, myself included... even more people knew people who lost family & friends... fellow firefighters, rescue crews & policemen mourned for their fallen brothers & sisters & everyone was affected by the footage on the news that day.

The media coverage has ensured that this single day will live in infamy... the old question "Where were you & what were you doing when..." will make sure nobody forgets this for a long time to come... it got world-wide coverage, so why shouldn't it get world-wide rememberance?
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I agree 100% with you!! Couldn't have said it better!! xo

Funtin':

My husband will actually be on a plane tomorrow... he is flying back to Inverness from London Heathrow...

Security is bound to be extra tight, but please keep him in your thoughts too.
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My best friend is flying today too..... I've said a million prayers for all flights today.....and EVERYDAY!!

saxamophonegill:

However Bush handled 9/11 he was always going to be criticised. No amount of preparation in the world can really and truly prepare you for anything like that happening. Now I'm not a Bush fan, he is only human and maybe he could have handled things differently, but could any of us have done any better? It was a mammoth task and it would have been difficult to know where to start.
Fair enough he has made some dodgy decisions but I think people should look at the bigger picture.

True!!! xo

[quote name='lis2110' post='671160' date='Sep 10 2006, 04:55 PM']
[quote name='Funtin'' post='671069' date='Sep 10 2006, 10:39 AM']

It's the nutters that threaten civilian lives that should be stopped and brought to justice. Bombing countries to smithereens is not the answer. Bush is paying for the mistakes that his Dad made when he was president, and is making things no better... definately a chip off the old block, that one.

Let's not forget about the part that the Clinton administration had in this. National security wasn't exactly Bill's top priority. Bush had only been in office a relatively short time when 9/11 happened.

Exactly!!! This attack had little to do with Bush. Clinton was the one who made the decision to let Bin Laden go....even after previous attacks and numerous warnings that this day would come!! Disgusting.....

ms.ohno:

Val

It going to seem like I'm criticising the whole american population here but I assure you I'm not ... I interpreted the man's comment the way I did because we're constantly seeing political figures or even everday people on tv just talking about America (usually how great and strong it is). I know its such a sterotypical view of America but its almost as if America is cut off from the rest of the world. I say that because here we see all different cultures but immigrants in such large groups are less likely to be seen over there so a lot of people this side of the world almost have a more open view of the world and accept more. We're so used to seeing people of different origins (indian, african, east european etc.) that we don't see the threatening side of them.

If that was in an essay I had written, I'd have failed - its a few different points all rolled into one. Sorry for the confusion

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're american right? I'm sure it affected nearly every single person there and people became more frightened of what could happen on their own doorstep so I see how it could inspire you . Its nearly like we're cut off from the world in Ireland sometimes.